Why do most server providers of Germany don't offer internal DirectAdmin licences?

vpsgeekvpsgeek OG
edited December 2019 in General

Most of the 'clowd' & dedicated server providers from Germany which are popular in LowEndUniverse don't provide internal DirectAdmin license for example Hetzner Contabo Webtropia PHP-Friends netcup Ultravps.eu etc. What is the reason for that?

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  • @vpsgeek said:
    Most of the 'clowd' & dedicated server providers from Germany which are popular in LowEndUniverse don't provide internal DirectAdmin license for example Hetzner Contabo Webtropia PHP-Friends netcup Ultravps.eu etc. What is the reason behind that?

    Mentality? They are more conservative

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  • vpsgeekvpsgeek OG
    edited December 2019

    @Chievo said:

    @vpsgeek said:
    Most of the 'clowd' & dedicated server providers from Germany which are popular in LowEndUniverse don't provide internal DirectAdmin license for example Hetzner Contabo Webtropia PHP-Friends netcup Ultravps.eu etc. What is the reason behind that?

    Mentality? They are more conservative

    They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something. I can understand that Plesk is most popular in that part of the world but when your users are from around the world you should not ignore them.

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  • @vpsgeek said:

    @Chievo said:

    @vpsgeek said:
    Most of the 'clowd' & dedicated server providers from Germany which are popular in LowEndUniverse don't provide internal DirectAdmin license for example Hetzner Contabo Webtropia PHP-Friends netcup Ultravps.eu etc. What is the reason behind that?

    Mentality? They are more conservative

    They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something. I can understand that Plesk is most popular in that part of the world but what your users are from around the world you should not ignore them.

    You are completely right . hopefully they are going to add da in the near future. For netcup you must be even a company for buying a dedicated server if i am not wrong so...

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  • @Chievo said:
    For netcup you must be even a company for buying a dedicated server if i am not wrong so...

    That is correct

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  • @seriesn said:
    HI! We got Germany sir and provide internal DA licensing :)

    But you are from USA & so that is where your business is registered as well. My question was basically related to providers registered in Germany but perhaps I should have been more clear about it.

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  • In Germany froxlor seems to be quite famous, even netcup offers free froxlor panels for their VPS
    DA doesn't (still?) seem very used in continental Europe, Plesk is what dominates the industry (at least in the mid to big web agencies), and it has been for quite a long time, well before cPanel's price hikes
    If we consider that Plesk was dominating even before the cPanel "fiasco" (assuming it's going to pan out as a disaster, which still doesn't seem the case), the influx of some users "demanding" an alternative DA wouldn't really push agencies into DA adoption.
    OTOH, large provider with a true international vocation (such as Hetzner) may care a little more about trends across the pond and little perks like this. Time will tell

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  • seriesnseriesn Hosting ProviderOG

    @vpsgeek said:

    @seriesn said:
    HI! We got Germany sir and provide internal DA licensing :)

    But you are from USA & so that is where your business is registered as well. My question was basically related to providers registered in Germany but perhaps I should have been more clear about it.

    Aha! I guess the problem would be, most of these providers will need to custom build auto provisioning modules for DA license and they are not ready to deal with that yet’?

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  • edited December 2019

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

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  • @angstrom said:

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    This was basically what I wanted to post.

    And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    Dutch webhosters. Even a lot of the mainstream ones, ever since the mid-2000s. It’s cheap.

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  • vpsgeekvpsgeek OG
    edited December 2019

    @angstrom said:

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    But my question was related to internal license, not free. Internal usually means price offered by each vps or dedicated server provider to its customers only & is lower than what the regular price on software developer's official website is. It does not stand for free.

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  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Hosting ProviderOG
    edited December 2019

    @angstrom said:

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    If you are putting it like "we're making enough money" over "we want to improve and add to our offering" that makes the provider sound shitty.

    Specifically when it comes to DA in Germany, there has been quite a few discussions and requests for it, even outside of LE* last year, early this year and of course after cPanel.

    From here Martynas says "It's very easy to become a partner of DA" so whatever the reason it suggests the provider is actively deciding against it.

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  • @debaser said: And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    Dutch webhosters. Even a lot of the mainstream ones, ever since the mid-2000s. It’s cheap.

    Okay, good to know.

    But what I meant was that judging by discussions on the old forum, there seemed to be little mention of or special interest in DA until cPanel's price hike several months ago. Yes, people knew about DA, some people used it, but it didn't attract special interest. Or do I have this all wrong?

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  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Hosting ProviderOG

    @angstrom said:

    @debaser said: And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    Dutch webhosters. Even a lot of the mainstream ones, ever since the mid-2000s. It’s cheap.

    Okay, good to know.

    But what I meant was that judging by discussions on the old forum, there seemed to be little mention of or special interest in DA until cPanel's price hike several months ago. Yes, people knew about DA, some people used it, but it didn't attract special interest. Or do I have this all wrong?

    Comparing the entire hosting market with the userbase of LET is sketchy to say the least.

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  • WSSWSS Retired

    @SmallWeb said:
    Comparing the entire hosting market with the userbase of LET is sketchy to say the least.

    Like a tuna and sweet corn sammich missing the tuna.

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  • @vpsgeek said:

    @angstrom said:

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    But my question was related to internal license, not free. Internal usually means price offered by each vps or dedicated server provider to its customers only & is lower than what the regular price on software developer's official website is. It does not stand for free.

    Okay, yes, I thought that you meant "free" in the way that BuyVM and Clouvider are offering DA. So you mean at a discount, below the street price.

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • @SmallWeb said:

    @angstrom said:

    @debaser said: And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    Dutch webhosters. Even a lot of the mainstream ones, ever since the mid-2000s. It’s cheap.

    Okay, good to know.

    But what I meant was that judging by discussions on the old forum, there seemed to be little mention of or special interest in DA until cPanel's price hike several months ago. Yes, people knew about DA, some people used it, but it didn't attract special interest. Or do I have this all wrong?

    Comparing the entire hosting market with the userbase of LET is sketchy to say the least.

    I wasn't really comparing the entire hosting market with the userbase of LET.

    I was just trying to draw a (perhaps mistaken) conclusion based on LET discussions that DA attracts more interest now than it did before cPanel's price hike.

    But I guess that you guys are suggesting to me that this isn't the case.

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • WSSWSS Retired

    @angstrom said:
    I was just trying to draw a (perhaps mistaken) conclusion based on LET discussions that DA attracts more interest now than it did before cPanel's price hike.

    Only to vendors. Clients are happy to keep their cPanel. It's in their comfort zone. People don't often like to learn, and when the agreements are written that you can't start charging the client more although you take a bigger hit, the client often doesn't give a toss.

    I find most control panels oddly lacking, annoying, and sometimes more cumbersome than just what I do now - untar a template, sed replace, update. However, I'm also not that client.

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  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Hosting ProviderOG

    @angstrom said:

    @SmallWeb said:

    @angstrom said:

    @debaser said: And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    Dutch webhosters. Even a lot of the mainstream ones, ever since the mid-2000s. It’s cheap.

    Okay, good to know.

    But what I meant was that judging by discussions on the old forum, there seemed to be little mention of or special interest in DA until cPanel's price hike several months ago. Yes, people knew about DA, some people used it, but it didn't attract special interest. Or do I have this all wrong?

    Comparing the entire hosting market with the userbase of LET is sketchy to say the least.

    I wasn't really comparing the entire hosting market with the userbase of LET.

    I was just trying to draw a (perhaps mistaken) conclusion based on LET discussions that DA attracts more interest now than it did before cPanel's price hike.

    But I guess that you guys are suggesting to me that this isn't the case.

    In terms of LE* it is "Low End" and cPanel was the bigger brand that happened to fit that category before the price changes, so you're not wrong.

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  • @SmallWeb said:
    If you are putting it like "we're making enough money" over "we want to improve and add to our offering" that makes the provider sound shitty.

    Specifically when it comes to DA in Germany, there has been quite a few discussions and requests for it, even outside of LE* last year, early this year and of course after cPanel.

    Still, if the demand of prospects and current customers for DA would be really high, I don’t see any provider deciding against it. More customers means more money and every company wants that. But of course the demand has to be high enough for them to make the investment. Maybe that’s where Germany’s conservatism kicks in.

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  • @SmallWeb said:

    @angstrom said:

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    If you are putting it like "we're making enough money" over "we want to improve and add to our offering" that makes the provider sound shitty.

    That certainly wasn't my intention.

    I suspect that German providers (who may have a tendency to be conservative in their business decisions anyway) haven't yet fully recognized the growing interest in DA. They may still come around, but they don't yet view it as essential to their offerings, and very probably, many of their customers haven't yet asked for DA. (I don't see why this characterization makes German providers look bad.)

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Hosting ProviderOG
    edited December 2019

    @debaser said:

    @SmallWeb said:
    If you are putting it like "we're making enough money" over "we want to improve and add to our offering" that makes the provider sound shitty.

    Specifically when it comes to DA in Germany, there has been quite a few discussions and requests for it, even outside of LE* last year, early this year and of course after cPanel.

    Still, if the demand of prospects and current customers for DA would be really high, I don’t see any provider deciding against it. More customers means more money and every company wants that. But of course the demand has to be high enough for them to make the investment. Maybe that’s where Germany’s conservatism kicks in.

    I am not really familar with the "charges" of becoming a partner so if it's a fee sure but if it's a pay for what you sell then I don't really get that.

    I guess it's just their process of defining what "high" demand is and treating it how they wish. I think someday soon though, hopefully.

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  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Hosting ProviderOG

    @angstrom said:

    @SmallWeb said:

    @angstrom said:

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    If you are putting it like "we're making enough money" over "we want to improve and add to our offering" that makes the provider sound shitty.

    That certainly wasn't my intention.

    I suspect that German providers (who may have a tendency to be conservative in their business decisions anyway) haven't yet fully recognized the growing interest in DA. They may still come around, but they don't yet view it as essential to their offerings, and very probably, many of their customers haven't yet asked for DA. (I don't see why this characterization makes German providers look bad.)

    Even though it's not early days for DirectAdmin, it's definitely still early days for this post-cPanel-questioning era so here's to the future. ;)

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  • WSSWSS Retired

    @SmallWeb said:
    I guess it's just their process of defining what "high" demand is and treating it how they wish.

    Good news! It's likely been suggested by at least 3 people, so Katie will be able to take this metric, consider it among their entire infrastructure of users, suggeest it, and then at some point there is likely to be the ability to correlate this data as a possible trend which will make it on page 4095 of the weekly meeting, under subsection D, where it will be proposed to bring it up during a future meeting.

    My pronouns are asshole/asshole/asshole. I will give you the same courtesy.

  • @WSS said:

    @angstrom said:
    I was just trying to draw a (perhaps mistaken) conclusion based on LET discussions that DA attracts more interest now than it did before cPanel's price hike.

    Only to vendors. Clients are happy to keep their cPanel. It's in their comfort zone. People don't often like to learn, and when the agreements are written that you can't start charging the client more although you take a bigger hit, the client often doesn't give a toss.

    I completely agree.

    But then by this reasoning, it's vendors rather than clients who would be urging German providers to offer DA at a discount, and this would be a relatively recent phenomenon (and add to this that German providers have a tendency to be conservative).

    I find most control panels oddly lacking, annoying, and sometimes more cumbersome than just what I do now - untar a template, sed replace, update. However, I'm also not that client.

    Same here.

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Hosting ProviderOG

    WSS said: Good news! It's likely been suggested by at least 3 people, so Katie will be able to take this metric, consider it among their entire infrastructure of users, suggeest it, and then at some point there is likely to be the ability to correlate this data as a possible trend which will make it on page 4095 of the weekly meeting, under subsection D, where it will be proposed to bring it up during a future meeting.

    WSS for Hetzner CEO!

    If I was going to hazard a guess, I'd say a handful (or two) people must have asked at the least.

    In terms of Germany/DirectAdmin, Clouvider has definitely made some moves with those extra locations (Frankfurt) including a free internal. Maybe saw the gap that German/Europe based companies/services have in the market.

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  • @SmallWeb said:

    @angstrom said:

    @SmallWeb said:

    @angstrom said:

    @vpsgeek said: They should at least give a ***k when a significant number of their customers might be interested in something.

    Apparently, they get customers easily enough without offering DA, so why should they care that some low-end forum participants want them to offer DA for free?

    And, frankly, until the cPanel price hike several months ago, who really was interested in DA anyway?

    If you are putting it like "we're making enough money" over "we want to improve and add to our offering" that makes the provider sound shitty.

    That certainly wasn't my intention.

    I suspect that German providers (who may have a tendency to be conservative in their business decisions anyway) haven't yet fully recognized the growing interest in DA. They may still come around, but they don't yet view it as essential to their offerings, and very probably, many of their customers haven't yet asked for DA. (I don't see why this characterization makes German providers look bad.)

    Even though it's not early days for DirectAdmin, it's definitely still early days for this post-cPanel-questioning era so here's to the future. ;)

    Yeah, I mean, not every provider (especially German provider) moves so quickly! The aftermath of cPanel's price hike is still playing itself out.

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • @WSS said:

    @SmallWeb said:
    I guess it's just their process of defining what "high" demand is and treating it how they wish.

    Good news! It's likely been suggested by at least 3 people, so Katie will be able to take this metric, consider it among their entire infrastructure of users, suggeest it, and then at some point there is likely to be the ability to correlate this data as a possible trend which will make it on page 4095 of the weekly meeting, under subsection D, where it will be proposed to bring it up during a future meeting.

    Assuming that the number of people who suggest it continues to increase, I'd still give it two years at least.

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • WSSWSS Retired

    @angstrom said:

    @WSS said:

    @SmallWeb said:
    I guess it's just their process of defining what "high" demand is and treating it how they wish.

    Good news! It's likely been suggested by at least 3 people, so Katie will be able to take this metric, consider it among their entire infrastructure of users, suggeest it, and then at some point there is likely to be the ability to correlate this data as a possible trend which will make it on page 4095 of the weekly meeting, under subsection D, where it will be proposed to bring it up during a future meeting.

    Assuming that the number of people who suggest it continues to increase, I'd still give it two years at least.

    Well, obviously. Ve needink to be doink mahhrrr-kehht rhreeeesearuch.

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  • edited December 2019

    @SmallWeb said:

    WSS said: Good news! It's likely been suggested by at least 3 people, so Katie will be able to take this metric, consider it among their entire infrastructure of users, suggeest it, and then at some point there is likely to be the ability to correlate this data as a possible trend which will make it on page 4095 of the weekly meeting, under subsection D, where it will be proposed to bring it up during a future meeting.

    WSS for Hetzner CEO!

    If I was going to hazard a guess, I'd say a handful (or two) people must have asked at the least.

    In terms of Germany/DirectAdmin, Clouvider has definitely made some moves with those extra locations (Frankfurt) including a free internal. Maybe saw the gap that German/Europe based companies/services have in the market.

    Michael, so you would welcome it if more and more providers offered a free internal DA license? (Serious question.)

    Wouldn't that make more competition for you?

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

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