German law firm to provide perspective for Businesses to win back money even after lost PP dispute

YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

The german IT-Recht Kanzlei, which as Web Designer I am partner of, now provides their users with a draft which allows them to charge their clients again if they falsely won a PayPal dispute.
The IT-Recht Kanzlei argues that if PayPal (falsely) decides in the customers favour and initiates a chargeback, the Provider's right to charge the customer for the service provided is being "revived" quoting the german Bundesgerichtshof (BGH).
https://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/paypal-kaeuferschutz-rueckzahlung-muster.html

While this probably won't help a lot if your client sits on the other end of the pond, being a german business, it at least provides the perspective to get your money back from local clients (and maybe EU) even if PP decided against you.

Thanked by (4)Chievo Abdullah mikho lentro

Comments

  • mikhomikho AdministratorHosting ProviderOG

    So a tl;dr (well I did read a translated version of the link) a seller should be able to dispute the buyer's dispute? If the buyer wins.

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @mikho said:
    So a tl;dr (well I did read a translated version of the link) a seller should be able to dispute the buyer's dispute? If the buyer wins.

    Yeah, kinda. Basically, what they say is that as a seller, you have a right to be paid for your work/service. If the buyer initiates a dispute with PayPal and PayPal then decides in their favour the money the buyer paid you (obviously) will be charged back from your account by PayPal. By doing this, given that PayPal is no "court" and makes this decision unilateraly, your claim to be paid for your work/service you initially provided is "revived". It is kinda as if the buyer had never paid you to begin with and you thus have a legal claim to get paid which you can enforce/hold against them. If, ofc, you did some bullshit as a seller and PayPal's decision was "justified", the buyer can always go to court and if court finds they are in the right, you won't see any money. Often enough, however, chargebacks are quickly decided in the buyer's favour and, perhaps, not always do the situation justice. In such cases it is good to know that, in Germany (and perhaps EU even) , you can probably do something about that.

  • mikhomikho AdministratorHosting ProviderOG

    Would be interesting to know if they base it on German law or EU law. If it is an EU directive, then it should be applied across all EU.
    And it will apply to all buyers, from all over the world if the company/seller is an EU company.

    Interesting. Will be nice to hear/read about the first tried case.
    And I'm sure it also depends on what was bought.

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer
    edited September 22

    @mikho said:
    Would be interesting to know if they base it on German law or EU law. If it is an EU directive, then it should be applied across all EU.
    And it will apply to all buyers, from all over the world if the company/seller is an EU company.

    Interesting. Will be nice to hear/read about the first tried case.
    And I'm sure it also depends on what was bought.

    Interesting indeed. The examples they name are from court cases of the german Bundesgerichtshof (BGH) which you can google "Az. VIII ZR 83/16 und Az. VIII ZR 213/16" and then probably again translate :P

    E.g.: http://juris.bundesgerichtshof.de/cgi-bin/rechtsprechung/document.py?Gericht=bgh&Art=en&nr=80382&pos=0&anz=1

  • edited September 22

    @Ympker @mikho at least for germany I think that this nothing really new but how contractual law works. think of it as an abstraction. there is something each party owes to the other, so for the buyer that obligation obviously is to pay. just because you paid but for whatever reason claimed the money back doesn't free you of your contractual obligation.

    the fact that paypal is in between here deciding anything is not the only scenario you can think of (though probably nowadays the most common).
    you could as well have agreed on sepa direct debit and after you charged the client, he can still claim it back with a click of a button and there is not even a third party needed to decide if there is a reason for it or not. of course you can then still ask for the money to be paid in whatever way or start collections if that fails.

    TL;DR; this form is merely declaring the fact that the contract has not been fullfilled and therefore the seller is gonna go after the money still.

    Thanked by (3)Ympker mikho Clouvider
  • I can't find a proper link right now but as far as I remember there were similar cases in France which ended with the same result at court: the seller has to be paid
    This pretty sure translates to many other EU countries too, like Austria or Spain that have comparable strict laws.

    Thanked by (2)Falzo Ympker
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